Tommy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:24:20 pm
Joaquin Souberbielle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:38:03 am
I would drop Liz off this list entirely now. I think she's just way too OTT at this point to have a chance at sniffing the end.
Do you think its similar to John last season, or a whole different level of OTT altogether. If you think they are in similar spots, do you think Liz can outlast John's performance? I would think no based on the gameplay being better this season, but Liz is also very cunning and with that idol might survive the first time its her turn to go.
So, I think she'll probably make it around as far as John did, but for totally different reasons. I think they're very different players. I'll go into this more in a bit, but I think the public idol will probably let her last longer than she normally probably would, which is the only reason why.
John was a great social player, and very well liked, and one thing that worked both for him and against him was that
he had a side. His main alliance was to Poroto, and everyone knew that. The people on Poroto, especially in the beginning of the merge, needed him numbers wise, and other players, such as you and Nick, knew that when you would want to flip, you'd be able to flip to everyone in that crew. That made him incredibly useful, and so even though he was a big jury threat, not someone you'd want to take out early merge. It kind of backfires later in the game, since at that point to make the end John had to either immunity out or hope his alliance made a mistake and wanted him to go to the end with him despite his treat level.
Liz, on the other hand, has alliances with
everyone - I don't think anyone knows where she truly stands on a group basis, people just have to feel great about her on an individual level. This lets her control the game in a chess piece kind of way by moving the groups she wants together through her. She's more OTT because in doing that, everyone
knows she's sort of doing that, but can't do anything to help it right now (or want to be strung along). Case in point - she's being called Dictator Liz by some of the newbs. She becomes less useful in an early/mid merge scenario because...what really are her numbers? You've got to know that by having everyone, she's going to be the one flipping on others, and not you flipping to her. That kind of player is much more dangerous, and more likely to be taken out early. However, the Public Idol makes it difficult because...if she's in with everyone, all it takes is one person to slip the vote to her (either out of loyalty, or wanting her as a shield) and the plan is blown up. It will make people more hesitant to take a shot at her.
To Danni's point, Ziggy (or Sebastian, in Morocco) kind of played a combination of the two games, which is what made his game so nuts. He had a defined group (the Jellal alliance) that people would want to flip to, while also controlling the other relationships and alliances. He burned a lot of those non-Jellal people in his path to the end, which is what made the jury so bitter, and also bluffed the public idol significantly. He was also much less OTT at this point, no one was saying he was calling the shots until a little bit into the merge.